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constant lock ups

Maxim
posted 05-20-2001 12:45 AM
About a month ago I accidentally bumped into mordor, then a little while later I found out about this game "demise", a graphically superior beast, imagine my exitement, but now that I have it I cant play but maybe 20 minutes before it locks up my computer, everytime I restart I've lost my map, I've got the Geforce 2 GTS pro, a 1.1 ghz comp, and a good deal of ram, this game is addictive and every twenty minutes I'm poppin more advil for the headaches, any ideas on what's going on, oh, I installed both patches and have re-installed the game a couple of different times....???? any help on this would be appreciated!


Garth
posted 05-20-2001 03:49 AM
Which OS are you using? Also, are you playing under opengl, directx or software render mode. If directx, which version of directx are you running?


Maxim
posted 05-20-2001 05:20 AM
Win 98 Second Edition, I've tried all three, DX OpenGL, and Software, all run for a little while and then freeze on some animation or other, freezing my whole system. DX 8.0a, I've also tried 7.0, my graphics card is brand new, so is my system, ive also tried several of the nvidia det drivers, the 1080, 631, 650, 752, 1240, and 1200, but not in any particular order. anything there help???


Garth
posted 05-20-2001 05:30 AM
No ideas yet; however, a few more questions:
Are you playing sp or mp?
Are you running in 16 or 32 bit mode?
Are you running 640x480, 800x600, 1024 x 768 or some other resolution?
Are you running AGPx2 or AGPx4?
When you installed the patches did you run the game in between in accrodance with the instructions that others have posted on these boards?
Have you tried running w/o patches and w/ just one patch?
Have you tried disabling virus-checkers and firewalls?
Have you tried disabling sound, music and special effects features?


Sortiri
posted 05-20-2001 05:38 AM
Freeze ups occured with me only in Internet Explorer. Turned out to be Video card drivers. even when driver is brand new it's old. some new video driver upgrades (ex. ATI Rage Pro) won't work with DirectX 7.0 and need to have the 8.0a version. Best resources for your board is the manufacturer web site. See the docs that came with the computer about the video card web site should be listed. Read FAQ check out what drivers are available for the card and make sure to read the "fine" print about unistalling old drivers prior to installing (or upgrading new drivers) Good Luck, it took me awhile to get it right, but well worth the fight and cost of headache medicine

PS Hope this helps.


Lappen
posted 05-20-2001 10:34 AM
I also have Geforce 2 GTS and have had the same problems. After updating every possible driver i updated the drivers for the mainbord / agp drivers atfer that everything worked for a while... Have new problems now but that is related to Zonealarm / Demise not working together after updating Zonealarm


Maxim
posted 05-21-2001 12:35 AM
Lappen, which drivers specifically helped you out, I just flashed the new bios for my k7 raid, tried the 4in1 and am not sure which nvidia ref or det to use for the geforce, still locking up, but getting a good ten - twenty minutes of play time, just enough to keep me coming back, on the positive side, I've gotten to know the first three floors pretty good seeing how my map keeps taking a hike every time my system locks up, I'm going to try to re-format and re-install everything with a clean system only hosting demise, I'll get back to you after with an update......



Frostbite
posted 05-21-2001 03:29 AM
hmm, i've had demise installed long time now in W2k and now recently this same thing has started to happen to me too... about 15mins of play and *SNAP*, directly to windows... nothing new installed, settings not modified, not in windows or demise, so I out of ideas... I'm running 600 Athlon/384mb/Voodoo3/SBLive! Hmm, just got and idea, installed +128mb of memory a while ago, gotta check if it causes this?.... (it shouldn't but who knows, we are dealing some mysterious stuff here)



Maxim
posted 05-21-2001 06:16 AM
New update, I thought it may be a memory chip issue too, so I popped out my 128, 133 chip and put in a new 256,133 chip and blam, same thing, next I figured it may have been my graphics card, "PixelView X-Player Pro" - Geforce 2 GTS" so I changed it with another one, the game then ran on a fresh unconditional format and reinstallation of windows 98 SE for about an hour and blam, once again we are locked up. My current system is
1.1 Ghz Thunderbird
Abit K7 raid motherboard
256 pc 133 ram
Geforce2 GTS
Magic 17inch monitor,
anythoughts, I'm desperate and just about willing to try anything.


GTWS
posted 05-21-2001 06:55 AM
Try the detonator 2 drivers (if you haven't already). This cured my problem which was pretty similar.


Lappen
posted 05-21-2001 11:32 AM
Maxim! Latest 4in1 Drivers for the VIA chipset that is on my mainboard ASUS CUV4X
Nvida Detonator 3 Drivers 6.50 for the Asus AGP-V7700 GeForce2 GTS
Latest Directx 8.0a


Maxim
posted 05-21-2001 02:34 PM
GTWS, are you using the 522 det. 2 drivers or another, there are about 12 leaked and only one official, the 5.22, I am going to try that one.... On another note, I've changed a bunch of hardware already, could my processor be the culprit? How do you know if your processor wet's the bed and needs a new diapee???


GTWS
posted 05-21-2001 02:47 PM
Actually I used the 532 Drivers. Just so you know, I was having a problem with windows (98 and 2K) before I used these. I could only get into Demise for a minute or so. I have no crashes at all now. I can only hope you have success.
http://www.nvidia.com/Products/OpenDrvDwn.nsf/50e539029dad4459882568c9007fdaf6/dd87715640973f878825693e006ba5fb?OpenDocument


Guran
posted 05-21-2001 09:53 PM
Maxim, Have you tried the 7kb registry fix that is available on a few sites like Ku'tan Rising ?

I think this small registry fix does a lot more than fix the "ding" bug! It did on mine computer where the game was freezing after only a few minutes of play. Just a suggestion, but it may solve your problem.
Frostbite
posted 05-21-2001 10:33 PM
Just a point I checked out: Available RAM doesn't have anything to do with crashes, works equally "well" with 64 (a little slow), 128, 256 & 384 MB...


Dogg of Demise
posted 05-22-2001 01:57 AM
quote: Originally posted by Guran: Maxim, Have you tried the 7kb registry fix that is available on a few sites like Ku'tan Rising ? I think this small registry fix does a lot more than fix the "ding" bug! It did on mine computer where the game was freezing after only a few minutes of play. Just a suggestion, but it may solve your problem.
Ok can you tell me the exact name of the file this should be put in?


Maxim
posted 05-22-2001 04:30 AM
After updating and changing just about everything I ran the game with all the sound options disabled, and a couple of the graphic options out as well, like particles, and lo and behold, it ran, steady, solid, like a champ, and just because I was afraid it may crash I think I played for about 7 hours straight, my wife got mad, my baby forgot my name, but man, I guarantee I'll be hittin this thing religeously now, that ding thing may be just the fix I need, now I now the problem is in the sound, or my card, but I can play, and that's all that matters, thanx to everyone for all of there help, on this, I'll see you in the boards!



Guran
posted 05-22-2001 08:25 AM
quote: Originally posted by Dogg of Demise: Ok can you tell me the exact name of the file this should be put in?
This is a small registry fix. By executing it it adds up to 20 registry keys that the game may not have added to the registry (which seems to be the case with the "ding" bug). Unzip and execute, that is all!


Dogg of Demise
posted 05-22-2001 10:30 AM
Ok it is a program that automaticaly puts them in the right place? cool.


Morek
posted 05-23-2001 03:56 AM
Maxim, If the problem seems to be the sound card, wich one are you using?


Maxim
posted 05-23-2001 01:27 PM
I've got the creative soundblaster audio PCI 128, but I think that it may also be eithor the motherboard or the processor, tomorrow I'm changing my k7 raid to a gigabyte board, if that doesn't do it, the processor and the soundcard are toast, I'm gonna get this game to run solid, steady, the way it was designed, and if it takes gutting the case, that's what I'll do, does anyone else out there have a sound card compatibility issue and an audio pci128??? does anyone know if there are problems with the abit kt7 raid mother boards???


Maxim
posted 05-24-2001 01:58 PM
I've been thinking, and the game only locks up on me in the middle of an animation/sound, it plays good with everything off, I've got a powerful 3d card, should I have a powerful powersupply, I just looked at mine and it says 130Watt max, that sounds kinda small to me, should it maybe be greater? what do you all have out there, higher, lower, does it matter???


Dogg of Demise
posted 05-24-2001 05:38 PM
LOL the cpu your running recomends a 300w powersupply


Frostbite
posted 05-24-2001 10:01 PM
minimum 230! and that's absolute min!


Morek
posted 05-25-2001 12:39 PM
Hehehe i think i remeber a time when the pc power supplies were around 400 W good olītimes ... or i might be wrong

Anyway you might want to check some things in your audio board... I have an SoundBlaster PCI16 that was sold only in some countries with this name... Might be the same you use... I had to check the control panel (i think) and somewhere in the sound board options there was a tab that let you specify the amount of memory you wanted to use to store the samples. I lowered this and the sound started looping a lot less... Might want to give a try. Hope this helps!


Maxim
posted 05-25-2001 05:18 PM
Done Deal, Case closed, baby's got her new shoes.... The power supply sucked, turned out that yeah, 230 was the min, and my sound card was okay, but my mother board was junk, kept messing up on the transfer of something rq err, something was really wrong, and the store I baught the board from told me that they had to ship back 5 of the 15 they'd sold already for defects, now I've got a Asus v7 and everything is sunshine... Thanks to everyone for all of there help on this, the incredible amount of feedback was tremendous and greatly appreciated, now, back to my game...


GTWS
posted 05-25-2001 09:28 PM
Sure- got what you wanted and now you ditch us. Oh well- Have Fun !!!


Frostbite
posted 05-25-2001 11:16 PM
quote: Originally posted by Morek: Hehehe i think i remeber a time when the pc power supplies were around 400 W good olītimes ... or i might be wrong

heh, i think they were actually even 420 sometimes



Maxim
posted 05-26-2001 04:01 PM
Leave, Who left, me, did I leave, abandon you, my second family I spend more time with than the family here at home. No way, I didn't leave, just went to use the potty, but I'm back now, and my computer is running like a champ, this really isn't T-support related, but what's the best character class, race, allignment, guild combo? I'm gonna surf the rest of the boards, and see if someone has written a faq or has a strong oppinion, see you in the boards baby!


Hounder
posted 05-26-2001 06:50 PM
Maxim: Actually, there has been alot of topics on that very subject. Check with Kevin, if he is still watching. He had some real good party ideas.


Maxim
posted 05-29-2001 09:35 AM
Thanks Hounder, found Shadow's site, great index, has everything that is anything that is a part of the whole for the entire world of demise, whew, I've got a pretty good idea now for a party, I'll update it in the boards later.
Thanks


JP
posted 05-29-2001 09:32 PM
Okay here goes.
For the freezes and automatic kick out to the desktop or even to a reboot, run dxdiag, click on display and disable the AGP texture acceleration (majority of instances - or for the other few enable it). This is especially for ATI AGP cards but also some of the Nvidia AGP cards.For the short pauses and freezes in the game while playing see above. Have also noticed the short pauses and freezes a lot more recently and noticable especially in SP when I've installed an ATI card (but will have to test a PCI equivalent - if I can find one - to see if it may be related to AGP).
Also the opposite is true for some of the other cards. Just because a card uses the particular chipset, does not mean the actual manufacturer of your paticular card is the same as someone elses GeForce(x), or ATI, TNT, etc., and so the drivers and physical design of the card will not be the same for all (also the chips may be the lower or what some call the rejected ones even though they are still named or even slighlty number coded but named the same). Eg of different cards with the same Nvidia chipsets are Jaton, Creative, Eagle, Hercules and a whole slew of others. They may all run on the Generic Nvidia drivers but they do not all have the same quirks? as each other and so different things need to be done. Also some of the manufacturer drivers may have specific quirks/fixes that are particular to their cards that need to be used or not used (meaning generic drivers are not always good).
For those who install older drivers or running the older DX, AGP texturing may not be enabled when being detected by DX and so they work fine, but that option is usually then disabled all the time, and should not be for some other games (and vice versa).
Also, the AGP texture may also be greyed out for some when upgrading to DX or a new video driver and so that function is disabled for those and so the game usually works fine for them but for others it may be enabled after installing either the driver or DX and so some may have the stalls, freezes and boot outs (vice versa here also as the option is greyed out).
If your DXDiag AGP is greyed out you will have to re-install the other applet (of course according to proper and particular instructions). Eg. If you just installed a new driver and the box is greyed out then DX needs to be re-installed (also a vice versa here too).
Some PCI video cards also will actually get the AGP Texture Acceleration box to come up when installing a new driver. Usually it will have no effect if it says it's enabled (very rare instances), but a few of the cards do and so make sure it is disabled.
Also be careful of those who overclock or some of the cards that have the drivers that may clock by default a little higher than default (manufacturers do this to try and spec up to some of the better manufacturers) as this also causes some of the issues. There are reg entries or utilities available to clock down.
The only thing basically left for me to test on the stalling and freezing is to see if two identical cards from the same manufacturer, except for one being PCI and the other AGP, yields the different results and so it may tie down to the point of also an AGP issue only on specific cards (as soon as I can find a PCI card to match a specific AGP card I have).
If after installing both DX and a new driver if the AGP Texture Acceleration is greyed out or will not enable (if you got an AGP card) then you will also need to update the motherboard chipset AGP driver. Some Win OSes handle this better (newer ones have more updated drivers) but usually go to the MB manufacturer's site to get it. Some come in files called something like the 4-in-1 drivers, others will have the Agart(d) or something along those lines, type of drivers or combination of drivers. Installing those enables the features or fixes most issues with games (not just Demise - also can screw some games though, so may need to install older drivers). Usually for most of the drivers you can use the so called Turbo mode (VIA chips) with no problems or at least the highest mode for other chips (if the options are available). Else you may have to tune down.
I've done this on all types of MB's, OSes, video cards, chipsets, etc. and it is quite extensive to the total combinations of setups to get Demise to run all day (many hours) without crashing. I've got Demise on everything from Win 95 OSR2 to W2k Advanced server, running from DX3 all the way up to DX8a (removable hard drives make the transitions and testing easy) with multiple video adapters, Sound cards and MB's (that part is a little tougher).
As for sound cards, drivers are an issue and be careful about some of Creatives newer drivers, especially when using the SBLive (also some of the newer Ensoniq cards).
Also in game play if you kill all the video and sound option extras, then your game will usually also play better as it is not accessing one of the issues of the video or sound card drivers that is causing the crash, stall, freeze and so it won't crash. But then the game is not as exciting for some with some features turned off.
If you really want to see if you have a freeze/stall issue with your AGP card (and so far I have not seen too many that doesn't in any OS with any DX version - may also deal with MB's though) then run DX diag, click on the test DirectDraw test and if you notice a slight stall in the middle of the second windowed and/or third full screen bouncing square test then you will have an issue (it may not noticably affect Demise - Faster CPU's can help here). You may have to run these tests a few times. PCI cards do not get this issue (at least as far as all the cards I've tried), and I've seen only a few AGP cards do well there so far. DX8x also seems to run better on the stalls than any of the previous versions and so it becomes less noticeable.
One other option to try that is also further out (especially for stalls) and would not be something commonly thought of, is to put your CD on a different controller channel than your Hard drive(s) as the reduction in transfer on the bus causes fetches to sometimes be very reduced (depends on specific MB chipsets and controllers - and sometimes even on the other channel still causes the slow downs) or you can try it even with the CD disconnected just to test it out. If you get better results then either you need to keep the CD off of the HDD bus, or need a faster CD player. (This was a very noticeable issue with my Linux system, when testing - not Demise- an older CD player in lieu of my faster one).
For quick sum up, I've run the game on a "particular" system that has not been hardware modified and never had a game crash (that is a stall, too long of a pause, kick out to desktop and even reboot) in about over a year until I stuck in an ATI vid card. After getting all newer drivers and/or re-installing newer apps, I've managed to get the card working pretty well on that particular system and crashes were few and far between. But of course the card now has gone elsewhere and the original one is back in and running as good as before with only putting back the video driver.
Hope this helps some. Have fun!



JP
posted 05-29-2001 10:41 PM
Missed the Lappen ZA problem. Remove the Demise server from the program list asnd let it redo it's connecting and then allow it. If that doesn't work then uninstall ZA again, clean out the registry, also make sure to remove the folder and the rule files (actually any file that deals with ZA). You also haven't specified if it's ZA free or ZApro. Then re-install it (I'll guess it's 2.6.xx) and then make sure to set up the Demise server as a server service in ZA and allow it outbound and inbound connection (for ZApro also verify the port numbers are the right ones).


Maxim
posted 05-30-2001 03:52 AM
JP, you definately the man, or at least the man standing beside the man, that is a lot of good info, I am going to use it to troubleshoot my tnt2 ultra in my dusty old system, maybe I'll get two demise games running in my house, network the two and have an mp player at home. Thanks


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